Lose the Label
A Student Activist Community

I've already been looking around on the web tonight at cosmetic companies, looking at their sites, their models, and seeing if they test on animals...  I am pretty tired right now and have to get up early, but I think that it is a great project.  Good idea.

Also, I am down to help out with any other projects.  They all appeal deeply to me.  But for now, I am gonna keep researching cosmetics.  I'll keep you posted. 

Kalinka, kalinka, kalinka moya! V sadu yagoda malinka, malinka moya - Liz

liz, i'm definitely down to help you.  i would LOVE to help...so just let me know what you find, and i'll be doing some research on my own.  I also plan on taking action in the stop global warming area, i'll let ya'll know whats up with that as soon as i do.~Delia

This is a great idea-- especially in regards to using Facebook for this. But ultimately, and perhaps this should be a discussion for the Feminists Unite group and not here, but I think it would be extremely difficult and, in the end, unsuccessful to boycott a cosmetics company for their projected image alone. And I truly believe that this is neither apathy, nor defeatism talking--- but it will be damn near impossible to do damage to a cosmetic company on the basis of their models (though believe me, I completely agree with the sentiment). Want to take down a cosmetic company? The way to do that, I feel, is by both criticizing it for its image (the unrealistic beauty aspect) and for something on a political level-- for instance, most of these companies use animal testing. I'm just throwing off ideas, really, but I'm reminded of your post, Jake, about our generation, and how they just wish they were told what to fight against. Well, I don't think one would be able to raise awareness of much of anything by boycotting a cosmetics company, firstly because people are so rooted in that bullshit image of anorexia and short-short-short skirts, and secondly because it might even perpetuate the (fucking awful) stereotype that feminists don't wear make-up, don't shave, and hate everybody (at least in ignorant people-- which is a lot of people). I'm not saying abandon the boycott idea-- it's a FANTASTIC idea, but I fear it might not be given any creedence if we go for a company on the basis of their social message. That being said, on the note of feminism:

What I think might be a great idea for the Feminists Unite group is to (among many things) focus on voting. I read somewhere that 50 percent of women in this country do not vote, despite their (rather recently) obtained right to do so. Now, if we focus hard on a voting campaign of sorts, targeted toward women, not only would we have more people excercising their rights, which generations of women fought tooth-and-nail for, but it would send across an empowering, feminist message.

Just my two cents.

i think that that's a great idea.... definitely on the global warming stuff for sure.  i'll do whatever i can, just let me know what i can do.  i'm going to be focusing on (RED) this week for the most part but if you guys can point me in a direction for something.. i'll do it.

i agree with everything everyone has said, and by the way, i wear makeup and i love short short skirts...and there is nothing wrong with that.~Delia

hmm - short, short skirts?  okay...  now we're getting somewhere.

short skirts are fun, and they are flirty... but i think that they send (even if it is the wrong) message to people - children, men, and other women - that this is normal.  i don't know how to elaborate on this more, but after reading "short short skirts" i am frustrated and in a rut.  i just disagree. 

Kalinka, kalinka, kalinka moya! V sadu yagoda malinka, malinka moya - Liz

i'm not a short, short skirt-er.  i just don't feel comfortable enough to do that for me.  but, i think that if others want to wear them, its okay.. it only really bothers me when they wear them when its freezing outside.  then it definitely is sending a wrong message.. but i don't know if its sending a "normality" message to others though because there are so many people who don't wear short, short skirts.

idk.

 tricia :o)

alright. i see your point.

however, if women are wearing a mini skirt, showing off her cheeks, walking around in high heels so the entire world can see her wonders, it wouldn't surprise me if she doesn't get respect. it just doesn't surprise me. men don't go around in clothes like that... yeah, i know, we aren't the same as men... but honestly, come on! who wants to see that kind of stuff except for fashionistas, and guys who are on the prowl for a night?

hot day? sure... guys suffer through it too.

whatever - girls can wear whatever the hell they want. i am not going to go around saying "oh my god! why in the world is she wearing that!" i just hope that if they get any come ons, they are looking for them, and not offended by them.

i really don't know what i am trying to say here. i am out of words.

Kalinka, kalinka, kalinka moya! V sadu yagoda malinka, malinka moya - Liz

no i agree, it wouldn't suprise me either if she doesn't get respect.  you have to dress appropriately for the situation you are in too.  but, its their choice i guess.  

no don't worry.  :o)

no offense ya'll, but this conversation is running dangerously close to the argument of "she was wearing a short skirt, its her fault she got assaulted".  i know you've all heard it.  and i feel like its border-line being presented here.  and i just have to fight that, wherever i read it or hear it or see it.  there is a lot more to short-skirt culture than definitive lines of "she's a ho/she's respectable".  Its a fashion thing.  There are dresses, there is beachwear, there are situations in which short skirts are appropriate.  they are presented as being stylish all around, and women CANNOT be blamed for responding to that.  granted, some of the problem lies with the media...but short skirts are portrayed as being fashionable, and therefore they will be worn.  i don't think that means that a woman doesn't deserve respect.  in any case, blaming women in short skirts for negative attention they may get is not cool.  ALL of the blame for bad behavior lies with the perpetrator.  always.  period.  its not like every time i see a guy outside in the summer without a shirt on i have to go attack him.  that never happens.  but women in short skirts are big bad man-teasing villains?  F that.~Delia

Delia I think you are wrong. Perpetrator wrong. Fine. One is always being warned when on vacation not to go out on the beaches at night - do so at your own risk. People are being put in jail because they knew a murder was going on and they didn't say anything. A scantily-clad woman walking through a suburb is picked up and her background searched. All of these situations require a little common sense. Is it the vacationers fault that there is a possibility of theft/danger? No, but he/she knows the risk and makes a conscious decision otherwise. The person who knew about the murder did actually commit any physical crime, however was in a position where he/she knew better and should have acted differently. Even though the woman walking through the suburbs had no faulty history she was still picked up based of what she was wearing because of stereotypes. Similarily, when one dresses for the day/event he/she must think about how they are presenting themselves and the reactions that could be incurred. Again, similarily, one must think about the situations he/she puts him/herself in. Fashion is meant to illicit a reaction and it does just that. A push-up bra wasn't invented so women could keep tabs on their breasts, it was created to accentuate the female physique. Men are responsible for their reactions, yes, but women must consider the reprocussions. - Chris

fine.  i'm not saying wear a 2-inch skirt to a business meeting, nor am i saying that women shouldn't be careful and protect themselves.  obviously, you don't wear certain things in certain situations...the same as you wouldn't walk down certain dark streets alone at night.  that is common sense.  but saying that a woman is asking for it and doesn't deserve respect just because she wears a mini-skirt in ANY situation??  so if i wear a short jean skirt over my bathing suit down to the lake this summer, i'm fair game for rapists, and no one should listen to a word i say because i'm stupid?  all i'm saying is that there ARE appropriate times and places for short skirts (as mentioned in my last comment) and that wearing a skirt in those times or places doesn't make a woman "bad" or "wrong" or "trashy"...and it certainly doesn't mean she deserves to be hurt.  Just because i don't go on the beach at night in one country doesn't mean i'll never go to any beach at night.  and i'm sorry, but comparing murder conspiracy with wearing a skirt?  that seems a bit extreme.  regardless of what a woman is wearing, she never deserves to be raped or abducted or attacked.  EVER.  the same as the tourist doesn't deserve to be robbed or killed, and the scantily clad woman doesn't deserve to be kicked out of the suburbs.  These are the things about the world that we're all supposedly on LtL because we want to change, and you're basically saying to sit back and accept them.  I know they are reality right now.  but i'm here because i want to change them.  i want to combat poverty so you don't get robbed on the beach.  i want to combat racism and classism so prejudice fades, and anyone can stroll through the suburbs.  and i want to combat gender inequalities that lead to mysoginistic mindsets and gender based crimes like rape.

~Delia

i agree with delia on how a woman never deserves to be raped, attacked, or abducted.  and certainly her wearing of a skirt doesn't give someone free reign to do what he pleases because she was "asking for it."

i also agree that there are appropriate situations for skirt wearing and inappropriate ones.

so i guess, my view on all of this is that a woman has a right to wear what she pleases and she has a right to feel comfortable in what she wears.  she doesn't dismiss her rights by wearing a skirt.  but, if she does wear a skirt in inappropriate situations, then she may gain some unrespectful glances her way.  but this doesn't give ANYONE a right to rape, etc.  she isn't asking for it by doing this.  all she may be asking for is a few comments coming her way.

 but most of all, i totally 100% agree with delia in that some stuff needs to be changed.. "i want to combat poverty so you don't get robbed on the beach.  i want to combat racism and classism so prejudice fades, and anyone can stroll through the suburbs.  and i want to combat gender inequalities that lead to mysoginistic mindsets and gender based crimes like rape."  

i think that this whole discussion involves a lot of stereotypes.  that women who choose to wear short skirts are sluts/whores/etc.  just because they choose to wear this doesn't mean that they are.  i hate these stereotypes.  what you wear should not dictate how you are viewed in society.  if she wants to wear it, then go right on ahead.  as long as it makes you happy in your own way, then good for you.  i would say that sometimes people make bad decisions on what they wear for a particular time and place, but these things happen.  Of course, there are exceptions to this.  THere are women who will purposely wear shorter items of clothing in hopes of attracting attention from men.  But if she wants to do it, who are we to stop her?  Like I said before, by putting herself out there like this, she can't be blamed if she is raped, killed, abducted, etc.  She should NEVER take the blame for the actions of another.  She may have put herself in a situation where men could take advantage, but the blame remains on the other person rather than the victim.

i just wish that these stereotypes could be erased.  judging people based on what tthey wear and what they look like is just plain stupid.

I read an interesting book I would suggest to all called, "blink". It is written by Malcom Gladwell and deals with stereotyping and how the mind uses this skill as a basis for knowledge and defence. My personal belief: stereotyping good / being bound by the stereotype bad. For instance, when you meet someone you box them and then ask do they fit? It's a way to develop your gut feeling.
My previous post talks about the responsibility of people to understand their surroundings and the need for them to act accordingly. This does not negate the responsibility of the perpetrator for his/her actions. The victim does not deserve to be raped, assualted, etc because she decides she wants to wear a skirt that day. No obviously not. That's not what I'm saying. I'll make another analogy. You drive a car all the time yet when it gets stormy out or snows you become careful or don't go out because it is potentially dangerous. Likewise, although it is not you're fault you must take into consideration the potential for these things to happen and whenever possible decrease your chances. 
I am absolutely not saying sit back and do nothing because things will never change. I am saying find the root of the problem and change it from there. Many girls don't realize how they dress beyond that the outfit is trendy. So, if we are able to change trends we are able to change the vast majority of peoples clothing choices. Cause and effect. 
As much as I would like to think that solving poverty would stop stealing and a solution to all suffering would stop crime, I believe that these things will happen regardless so it is our duty as members of society and LtL to educate people and create better decision makers.

Sorry posted twice.